Dario Amodei detailed his reasons for leaving OpenAI to found Anthropic, citing a trust disagreement with Sam Altman.

Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei has stated clearly that trust lies at the core of his decision to famously leave OpenAI and Sam Altman.

"Why argue with someone who doesn't share the same vision and whom you don't trust?" he said in an apparent jab at Altman.

Amodei indicated that he has indeed found other "trustworthy" people in the AI field, citing his relationship with Google DeepMind CEO Demis Hassabis as an example.

Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei said he feels "calm" about the current state of competition between Anthropic and OpenAI, despite a cold war brewing between the world's two largest AI companies.

But he did direct some sarcasm at Sam Altman.

"At the end of the day, why argue with someone who doesn't share the same vision and whom you don't trust?" Amodei said in a lengthy interview conducted by Bloomberg for "The Circuit with Emily Chang," which aired Wednesday, in an apparent jab at the OpenAI CEO.

"The way to resolve this is, you do your thing, and they do theirs," he said. "I completely accept the idea that we do things our way, and they do things their way."

Ultimately, others will decide who is right, Amodei said.

"We'll see who wins in the marketplace and who wins in the court of public opinion," he said. "I think those are far more compelling than any drama about who left what."

As Chang told Amodei, the story of him, his sister Daniela, and nine OpenAI employees leaving in 2020 to found Anthropic has become a "legend" in Silicon Valley. Once the underdog, Anthropic is now widely seen as having surpassed OpenAI in the generative AI competition.

Amodei's departure gained renewed attention following an exposé published by Ronan Farrow in The New Yorker that examined whether Altman was trustworthy. Contemporaneous notes Amodei took during his time at OpenAI regarding his interactions with Altman were cited throughout the report. Days after the report's publication, Altman's home was attacked, and he partly blamed the New Yorker report (without directly naming the publication), and later blamed how Anthropic talks about OpenAI.

"I think doom-mongering has not been helpful. I think the way some other labs talk about us has not been helpful," Altman said on an April episode of the "Core Memory" podcast, adding, "I think the way Anthropic talks about OpenAI has not been helpful."

Amodei attributed his most viral moment with Altman in their competition—the two apparently refused to join other industry leaders in a show of unity—to the "extreme chaos" of the India AI Summit. The Anthropic CEO said that other summits hosted by world leaders are often chaotic as well.

"Look, I don't know what to tell you, okay? Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi suddenly appeared there and told everyone to hold hands," Amodei said, with the Prime Minister positioned directly to the right of both Altman and Amodei. (Left unsaid is that both Altman and Amodei did hold hands with others beside them.)

Though he didn't directly name Altman, in his more than one-hour interview with Chang, Amodei appeared to implicitly criticize OpenAI multiple times.

When asked how the world could trust AI companies to collaborate on major AI safety issues, Amodei indicated that it's less about everyone getting along and more about who sets the agenda.

"What I think needs to happen is that trustworthy actors need to come together and put untrustworthy actors in a position where they have to adopt the same standards," he said. "Through extensive experience, I've found that some people won't do the right thing on their own, but if most of the industry is doing the right thing, then I think the rest of the industry is—they're put in a position where they don't have much choice."

Amodei stated clearly that the narrative of "no one trusting each other" in AI is untrue, citing his relationship with Google DeepMind CEO Demis Hassabis.

"I've known him for 15 years. We've collaborated on many issues," Amodei said. "We purchase computing resources from Google. We've been exchanging safety ideas. So my point is, first, some actors are more trustworthy than others, and I think there are actors outside of Anthropic that I trust, and I think they are trustworthy."

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